Rafa Müller - the passionate jazz-drummer from Brazil

00:00:07:

00:00:08: Hello and welcome to MJC, Marianne's Jazzcast.

00:00:14: My name is Mayaneta Stappen and I'm grateful that you are joining me!

00:00:18: This time i am very pleased to welcome a special guest.

00:00:23: A couple of years ago I saw him for the first time in Hamburg at The Jazz Hall which is connected with Hofschule für Musik und Theater HFMT the conservatory, where young international talents may study jazz including music theory, jazz history, improvisation composing and performing in bands.

00:00:43: So after the pandemic a small group of very young jazz students played a concert And he was The Drummer slender-boned elegantly dressed In light colored suit and tie His dark hair well cut.

00:00:56: He played drums delicately with enormous passion.

00:01:01: I was stunned.

00:01:03: After the concert, i shortly talked to him and since then i wanted to learn more about this young musician who was born on the first of september.

00:01:11: two thousand in brazil.

00:01:13: during the last years he's still studying in hamburg .i saw him in concert many times ,in various groups In clubs at the jazz hall And At The Widely Known Help Jazz Festival Jazz Truck in twenty-twenty six on the big black Hamburg stage with a quartet under his name.

00:01:36: And important to mention, His first CD Life at Brückenstern was released in October twenty-five and The Cover of the CD was designed by his beloved Brazilian wife and graphic designer Gabriella Basso.

00:01:52: And now I'm really happy to greet him and talk to him extensively about his upbringing.

00:01:57: His family, friends, teachers... ...his interests shining examples idols and hopes!

00:02:06: My name is Rafa Müller.

00:02:11: Thank you for having me.

00:02:12: Actually my full name is Rafael Branco Müller Because in Brazil we have the last names of both our parents, most the time.

00:02:25: And some people even get carried away and their grandparents' or grandparents'.

00:02:30: A lot friends have a very long name.

00:02:35: I happen to have just fairly longer than everybody else which is Branko from my mother and Müller for father.

00:02:43: but as an artistic decision i chose to have the nickname of Rafa.

00:02:49: everybody calls me like this and Müller is easier to remember I think than Branco at least.

00:02:57: So it just happened.

00:02:58: naturally that's how i'm called as an artist, Rafa Müller but you can call me in whichever way you want.

00:03:06: oh thank you for the details Rafa!

00:03:08: But where in Brazil were are you born?

00:03:10: In Porto Alegre.

00:03:12: That says a city in the south of brazil which is the furthest south state in Brazil, so very close to Argentina and into Paraguay and Uruguay.

00:03:29: And Porto Alegre's capital of this state...

00:03:33: Wow that's far away!

00:03:35: What made you move to Hamburg?

00:03:37: That's a special question because first off all I have a friend who played with me for years.

00:03:49: He's called Lucas Treveria.

00:03:52: He plays the guitar and he started studying here in two thousand nineteen, he found out about The Conservatory through a good friend of his and master And teacher.

00:04:04: both of us called Kiko Freitas Which is a drummer from songwriter John Bosco.

00:04:12: So Kiko Fretas this fantastic drummer and also was my teacher for some time.

00:04:21: He collaborated many times with the NDR big band in Hamburg and knows Wolf Kershak quite close.

00:04:29: so all of these very important figures were already connected somehow, and Kiko heard from Lukas that he wanted to study somewhere recommended him this conservatory here at Hamburg with Lucas.

00:04:48: then after a few years during the pandemic I talked a lot with Lucas and Lucas convinced me.

00:04:54: like he said, Hamburg is such a beautiful scene.

00:04:57: You got to come over and study everything.

00:05:00: it's really great here!

00:05:02: And you will love

00:05:03: it!".

00:05:04: He was right.

00:05:05: i was really glad to comeover and study here also just live as

00:05:10: musician.".

00:05:11: Well

00:05:11: that's a blessing for all the jazz hands around.

00:05:14: when did you get interested in playing especially the drums.

00:05:19: If I can remember that's been quite some time ago, i was around two or three years old and back then my dad was just figuring out actually... My parents always really supported me so much.

00:05:39: yeah..I had very loving parents and very supportive parents And they are not musicians but they love music and very soon noticed that I had a passion for music, supported it fully heartedly.

00:06:00: When i was around two or three years old my dad was downloading some music online.

00:06:06: he accidentally downloaded the MP-IV format.

00:06:10: so he found out by clicking on it, that those were music videos instead of just the track.

00:06:18: And he tells me I was crawling around and saw a screen when there's a drummer playing ACDC or Van Halen or David Leroth... He downloaded all this music.

00:06:40: while watching these clips was immediately hypnotized by the screen and he got me on his lap.

00:06:47: I watched it a thousand times, yeah!

00:06:49: And i was playing the drums at the table mimicking the drummer... ...and wanted to watch the clips over and over again.

00:06:58: so after that i started playing drums everywhere.

00:07:03: they also found very great drum teacher for me is called Ricardo Arengholtz.

00:07:13: He comes from, actually his dad is German but he's born in Brazil and he was a very important teacher to me as well.

00:07:21: I started having lessons with him when i was four years old And had up until end of high school or so...and uh..I learned everything from him musically To improvise ,to listen.

00:07:35: ...he´s kind of second father too.

00:07:40: I am very thankful for that.

00:07:41: So, through all these different inspirations... ...I got to play the drum set as a choice I made before i could realize and I'm glad about it.

00:07:53: Ah!

00:07:53: That sounds great.

00:07:54: also this German-Brazilian connection with the person of drummer Ricardo Ahrenhalt.

00:08:08: Yes, quite a lot.

00:08:09: Actually I love Brazilian music... ...I grew up with it and still couldn't run away from it even if i wanted to.

00:08:19: It's who I am musically Even If I play jazz or improvise music or classical or whatever it is I have this identity And Brazilian Music for me like a mixture product.

00:08:35: It's still a mixture, it is something that is very diverse and I had my first professional experiences in Brazil In music And maybe the first important one That i have was this project.

00:08:58: This band called...that it was a tribute to The great singer Elis Regina.

00:09:04: This singer, she comes from Porto Alegre as well.

00:09:11: My brother plays the piano and my older brother is a fantastic piano player.

00:09:14: he's not very active professionally at the moment but we used to play a lot together in earlier bands and earlier quartets And jazz groups.

00:09:27: Actually I forgot say that actually i learned To play and listen through really playing with my older brother, we would after lunch always go play together piano and drums.

00:09:39: And through him I used to play with many other friends of his as well that became Friends Of Mine.

00:09:48: then.

00:09:48: he was always very generous about that!

00:09:52: We...and i got to meet a very important person for me as well Mateus Au Bournois bassist from Porto Alegre.

00:10:03: Yeah, was active as a musician when I was already... When I was around in high school We got in touch again through my brother and we jammed a few times And i remember him saying something like yeah Oh nice to see that you're playing.

00:10:20: You sound great!

00:10:22: I'll keep you in mind for anything.

00:10:26: Of course I was happy enough to hear that But a few days later he called me as I was in the middle of a class, and high school.

00:10:35: And i had to walk off the class... ...and have to ask permission for the teacher to walk out of class.. ..and take my phone and talk with him.

00:10:45: He asked me because he plays in this Elis Regina tribute.

00:10:51: And he asked me to jump into their drummer which wasn't playing anymore on very short notice for a tour in Brazil, mostly in the south of Brazil but later we also toured another part of Brazil as well.

00:11:08: And it was one month long tour or two months long tour and he asked me would you be up to do that next month?

00:11:15: Would you have

00:11:17: time?".

00:11:18: Of course I had no time even if i wouldn't... I just said yes immediately like exploding inside being able to hit the road and play, especially the music of Elishe Gina which has a great influence on me.

00:11:34: And yeah I felt really like so blessed!

00:11:40: The singer is very... She's a great singer.

00:11:43: she's called Camila Lopes.

00:11:47: Yeah, she has a great tone and it's very similar.

00:11:50: She can sound very similar to Elis Regina... ...she has a very similar presence as well that she can channel.

00:11:58: And It's no wonder this tribute is been known for its accuracy in playing the arrangements of music and staying true to original material with certain freedom.

00:12:14: but we all put a lot of hard work into it.

00:12:17: I remember that was so good for me, this is one my first professional experiences because... ...I would transcribe or learn by heart the drum parts from these musical treasures which are arrangements and music of Elis Regina in her band.

00:12:37: And this bassist Matteo Zabornozzi will also do that!

00:12:41: Also learned how to play with percussion player huge school as well for me with the Rafaio Pavone which was playing a mixed set of congas, of tambourine, of bass drum and everything.

00:12:53: And I remember trying my best to stay out of his way because he was an older musician that was giving some tips like yeah if i go here you go there or just looking at me...and would already be like oh did it do something wrong?

00:13:07: Because I think sixteen or seventeen years old and he was thirty something.

00:13:14: And back then everyone who is not in school, it's already like wow this person so much older than me right?

00:13:22: Like you can't even think about that but...I learned a lot with them About many things musically and personally.

00:13:31: other thing happened at the time which i played in Brazil before coming to Germany from around two thousand sixteen to till the pandemic really.

00:13:45: Yeah, I had different groups some with my brother as well.

00:13:48: quartet with Lucas Acheveria this guitarist.

00:13:50: that is also a good reason why i'm here.

00:13:56: he brought me here and in with Mateus this bassist and my brother Benher Benjur his name and we used to play a lot together.

00:14:07: I'm really reminiscent of these times, i learned alot.

00:14:10: So

00:14:10: it's obvious drumming is simply the most important part of your life.

00:14:15: Would you please name some of the dramas who inspired you the most?

00:14:20: Well yeah there are many influences...I have to say Alvin Jones was always great inspiration for me as he is for many and also El Foster, a drummer I really deeply admire.

00:14:43: And i discovered only later by having lessons with Holger Nell here at the conservatory which was also very important person in my life.

00:14:54: He showed me many ways and Im thankful to him.

00:15:03: But yeah, I would say Alvin Jones, El Foster.

00:15:09: I really love of course Art Blakey as well and There's many many drummers are really deeply admired.

00:15:17: in Brazil there is a drummer called Nene which played with Egberto Gismonchi A lot.

00:15:23: i also wrote My bachelor thesis on him an interviewed him so I Did my work about him?

00:15:32: And he has big influence on me as well, his way of playing Ayrto Moreira.

00:15:37: And yeah many great drummers are a big influence in Brazil and America... In Europe too like June Christensen for example or Gunther Sommer Or yeah..in Hamburg there's so many great drummer that I deeply admire Dirk Achim Donau and Björn Lücker And Konrad Ulrich is not living here anymore, but there's really a lot of people that I had the pleasure to see in live and be inspired by them.

00:16:12: Yeah...I could name a few!

00:16:16: Now Living In Hamburg playing with different musicians That also means different instruments Different characters Temperaments Changing teams.

00:16:26: How do you as The Drama handle that?

00:16:29: Who's leading?

00:16:31: And sometimes the musical track seems to get lost.

00:16:35: How do you deal with that?

00:16:36: Yeah,

00:16:39: it's a great question!

00:16:41: I was always very fascinated by orchestration and how one can explore room... ...and as musician you learn how to leave space for different instruments or players too.

00:17:01: In many cases playing without a pianist or guitar player, let's say allows the drums to play in more colorful and harmonic way.

00:17:13: Or just playing with bassists on a saxophone in trio really opens up possibilities of certain ambiguity for harmony that I'd love to explore.

00:17:31: play more, or you can suggest more chords with cymbals.

00:17:46: I'm very passionate about the drums especially because it's an instrument of fantasy.

00:17:53: we don't have twelve notes and certain scales or so we have to deal with those seven, maybe eight elements that we have and really imagine a picture out of it.

00:18:11: So why do you play a cymbal when the certain chord shows up?

00:18:14: Or Why Do You Play With The Hi-Hat Here And There...or Just Drums or Just Cymbals or Just Bass Drum?

00:18:23: How Do You See The Drum Set In This Context?

00:18:25: I think for me its always exciting regardless of the formation, hear and play what I hear in this sense.

00:18:36: And yeah...I think every drummer is very excited about it as i would imagine playing with a small ensemble or bigger ensemble exploring that space there.

00:18:51: It's also a challenge.

00:18:56: I'm particularly excited about it.

00:18:58: Yeah, It's really hard!

00:18:59: Never gets easy in this sense.

00:19:02: but working to be present at the moment and listening to others yourself and adjusting that requires letting go of control a lot because thinking too much about your lane or what you have do might put you into danger listening to the others, and the other may as well do the same.

00:19:31: So you have to demand that the other players listen to you... ...and at the same time they acknowledge that you are listening to them right?

00:19:42: And many times it happens people get lost or they have a different pace of breathing.

00:19:53: That's why it is always, I like to play with the same people and develop a kind of relationship musically.

00:20:01: So that after awhile its just effortless right?

00:20:04: And for me a great example which i learned so much from there are couple of bassists... ...I really admire deeply in Hamburg.. ..and theres'a basis that I get-to-play with over the last few years a complete fan of, and I'm so glad that i get to learn from him which is Paul Im.

00:20:31: He's played with many great players that I admire And um...I learned alot about the drums and bass playing with him.

00:20:53: Of course, Hamburg has amazing bassists.

00:20:56: And on another spectrum which is for me a different player but brings in the different emotions and... ...and different ideas it's Georgi Kignatse that is a phenomenal bass player as well.

00:21:14: from every aspect.

00:21:16: I have to say i learned alot of other instruments.

00:21:20: Rafa, you spoke a lot about the double bass but what about e-bass?

00:21:25: I

00:21:25: have not seen you on stage together with an e-base player.

00:21:28: Yeah!

00:21:28: But actually in Brazil i mostly played with E-Bass players because uh...I guess there's a stronger tradition or at least There is less of an acoustic base tradition in brazil than there is an Ebass tradition and um..but of course they're both great players here in Hamburg less often with e-bass players, I guess.

00:21:53: But there's one really good bass player called Achim Seinfahrt which is also always a pleasure to play with.

00:22:02: There's great bass player Jürgen Attisch as well Which... ...which i get to play sometimes from all these basses.

00:22:14: it should be for drummers The best friend is the bassist, right?

00:22:23: And that's something Adam Nussbaum told me when I had a lesson with him.

00:22:29: He was in Hamburg and the great drummer Adam Nusbaum he told yeah there's never enough Great bass players in the world There should always be more another bass player.

00:22:38: i forgot because sometimes his transitioning between roles is Sven Kerschek for me one of them most musical musicians I've ever met and which has the power of making everything musical.

00:22:56: You know, you could...I have this fantasy if he would have a washing machine working on his side in the truck driving backwards or another And then place him with an instrument in the middle He'd make it sound like music somehow.

00:23:10: That's something that he can do It!

00:23:12: I trust him to do so.

00:23:17: also very inspiring, like many others here.

00:23:20: When you have a gig someplace do you practice beforehand or do you let the music just happen?

00:23:28: And how did find the gigs?

00:23:30: well it depends right.

00:23:33: I think there's some Music that requires A lot of more preparation and more aware awareness off-the-form.

00:23:43: That something I think, for me it's the most important about learning music is learning the shape of a song and how the drummer to G can happen even if spontaneously so that one is aware where you are in the music.

00:24:03: And what happens next?

00:24:10: Learning the music from musicians as, for example another good friend of mine in the ranger Lukas Brum.

00:24:20: He's a fantastic arranger and he composes very intricate music that feels very simple to hear...to listen but it is incredibly complicated to play.

00:24:39: so In order to make it as effortless and musical as possible you have to spend time with the material And learn it, play at home or listen a lot To it.

00:24:51: Or look at sheets and understand The shape of music what he means.

00:24:55: With that I know him from Brazil still And i've been playing his charts for long times.

00:25:05: So everytime i play his music I already know, developed this musical relationship as i was saying earlier.

00:25:15: So we don't start from scratch but still have to prepare the music.

00:25:21: and on the other side... We can't control everything!

00:25:24: We shouldn't right?

00:25:26: Yeah..I am a very spiritual person And uh....i believe that there should be room left for God and unknown to happen for the mystery of making music.

00:25:39: For The Creator, exactly because as much we have control on the music We will never have full control over it.

00:25:46: I mean... We just play instruments but there's obviously something else happening.

00:25:56: So yeah How do i find the gigs?

00:25:59: Maybe Well in a natural way.

00:26:06: Maybe the natural response is like yeah, just going to two concerts and getting to meet musicians And playing with them.

00:26:14: If it's good fit Having a project together and play in here-and-there or Yeah generally just showing interest.

00:26:28: maybe certain standard of professionalism.

00:26:37: If you're open to play and want-to-play, it is my experience so far that happens in a natural way.

00:26:46: It requires patience...

00:26:47: ...and

00:26:50: devotion!

00:26:52: But it happens.

00:26:54: Gigs are there.

00:26:55: The gigs will find you.

00:26:57: Do you remember when first listened to the drama Elvin Jones?

00:27:01: And do you remember the title of the music...?

00:27:06: that was certainly my favorite things from John Coltrane and I think i must have been around.

00:27:17: yeah maybe fourteen fifteen or something because up until then,I didn't really listen so much to jazz.

00:27:24: I was listening a lot to brazilian music and to rock into many different kinds of music.

00:27:31: My dad will listen everything at home.

00:27:36: We used to listen a lot of music together, songwriters like Cat Stevens as well and Johnny Mitchell.

00:27:43: And then Brazilian songwriters like Chico Buarque and Jean Bosco all the greats.

00:27:50: but up until that was around fourteen or fifteen I didn't really listen in a lot to jazz.

00:27:55: But when i started going into Jazz concerts...I don't remember exactly why.

00:28:01: there's been a band called Marmota which is Mermel, Tier and German.

00:28:08: I don't know how... Marmot probably in English but this band was also a great inspiration for me because i watched them live so blown away by it.

00:28:19: they were playing jazz.

00:28:21: then i wanted to learn all the jazz standards that could play with them.

00:28:36: found this version of Coltrane.

00:28:40: And yeah, that's where I heard Alvin Jones for the first time and maybe the only drummer really with drums can make me cry by listening to it!

00:28:53: It is a hard phenomenon right?

00:28:55: To be so impressed but like to cry moved to tears... Only the drum set.

00:29:02: That something he could do

00:29:06: To stay in the past for one more moment.

00:29:10: Which form of famous musician would you have liked to meet?

00:29:18: Oh, that's Joe Henderson.

00:29:20: definitely Joe Henderson.

00:29:21: For me this the tenor saxophone player.

00:29:27: Yeah I mean definitely many musicians i would love to meet like Coltrane or like Gustav Mahler Of course Bach, everyone would say Bach.

00:29:37: I don't know if we'd be able to communicate in German and probably very archaic German back then but yeah there's many musicians that like me.

00:29:47: But the first one comes to mind is Joe Henderson because he was my favorite musician And i just love his playing as an improviser If it were from the same generation somehow have lived around the time that he was active as a musician, I would try everything to get as close and possible from him.

00:30:19: And of course it might be a dream to play with them.

00:30:24: but just being there is something in his elegance talking about music that really resonates with me, and I can think of the same for Robim from Antonio Carlos Robim.

00:30:43: Both have this element a serious light-hearted elegance to play in music... And i like his poetry!

00:30:59: Talking about elegance, Affa you are a very slender person.

00:31:03: Where do YOU get the strength for this sound which is elegant and powerful as well?

00:31:11: Well yeah good question but I think it's...I found out that everybody has different kind of body.

00:31:26: if i would wish to to sound as big or so, as Alvin Jones for example that had huge hands by the way.

00:31:37: I never met him but... ...I hear from people who have big hands that shook his hand and they say their hands felt small.

00:31:50: So i know he has big hands And it sounds like this too.

00:31:57: I just realized it wouldn't make sense for me, with my stature or whatever to try the sound like that.

00:32:09: Or to try and sound in a way not natural for my body In certain ways And everybody can explore different strengths That they might have.

00:32:20: This allows me To have little bit more speed within a lower dynamic, more articulation or have little bit more pressure with the low-dynamic.

00:32:33: Or be more agile which doesn't mean that I don't want to sound big as well.

00:32:39: sometimes i really want it and try too.

00:32:43: but yeah... It's our instrument right?

00:32:51: Our body is our instrument and we have to learn how to play our body more than the instrument that we deal with.

00:32:59: That's it, is how we deal in relation of the musical instruments... ...that allows for music to happen!

00:33:09: So if you need to find your way through with your own means I can't switch my buddy.

00:33:18: Thank God We're all made different ways.

00:33:21: In concerts I notice that you always bring your own cymbals.

00:33:27: What characteristics make cymbal so special?

00:33:32: The cymbales are indeed very special, i think the choice of instrument for every musician is a highly important matter which shows how they see music.

00:33:48: in former times tradition, for example some composers write symbol gong or in this way just yeah.

00:34:01: For the percussionists right they give them a certain indication like Gustav Mahler or Stravinsky or whoever it is says get this symbol and its up to the percussionist.

00:34:16: I think that's about eighty percent of to choose which symbol because there's so many different symbols in terms of sizes, the sound or darkness or brightness or decay.

00:34:28: Or yeah all kinds of shapes and forms.

00:34:33: So it plays a big role To choose an instrument you're gonna play And how that is going to fit into music.

00:34:41: If has certain dialogue with the music.

00:34:45: That what makes the music important.

00:34:48: I think a drummer like Roy Haynes, for example is very known for playing this flat ride which is this ride without bell in it and therefore has less overtones that have less density in terms of sound but allows more space for articulation.

00:35:08: It's a very articulated cymbal so you hear every note very sharp precise And it also allows for more space for the soloist.

00:35:20: So, a piano trio behind a pianist like Chikuriya in this case where he started playing the flat right... It's something fantastic!

00:35:32: I have only one set of cymbals and yeah..I really like to spend time with these oneset of cymbols one set of cymbals and let it be like a symbiotic relationship.

00:35:51: And yeah, I think that plays a big role.

00:35:58: to choose which cymbal you're gonna play with... It's good most drummers are in most places normal that drummers have to bring their own cymbales.

00:36:13: Whenever you see a drummer, he's probably playing his own cymbals and already by looking at the symbols.

00:36:17: You can guess what kind of sound they're looking for or how their gonna sound in a way.

00:36:24: But yeah that is great question.

00:36:25: I mean i can go speak alot about cymbal now.

00:36:29: it's very dangerous topic That u entered.

00:36:34: but just one last thing because im very How do say mesmerized About this story.

00:36:44: I had a few lessons with Thomas Strönen, which is Norwegian drummer.

00:36:50: And he knew Jön Christensen very close... ...which was maybe the most famous Norwegian musician or... He played with Keith Jarrett in Belonging and your song Or my song!

00:37:08: And Jön Kristensen would never bring his cymbals.

00:37:12: he would always play the cymbals that were in the venue.

00:37:16: And, that's very odd for a drummer but... ...he'd get any stick and play any cymbal that was there.. ..and he was happy with it!

00:37:26: Sometimes they are really bad cymbales sometimes not professional jazz drumming cymbles more of learning student cymbale which is just piece of metal.

00:37:37: He could make them sound in beautiful way.

00:37:40: so thats also.

00:37:42: And on another hand, there's a paradox which is choosing your instrument is very important and it also allows you to sound in the way that you want.

00:37:52: But in other ways... You have your own sounds regardless of instruments you're playing with.

00:37:57: so I try to find a place between these two opposing truths to operate.

00:38:08: Well, I'm wondering how many hours do you spend playing on your drums during a day?

00:38:17: That varied a lot from year to year.

00:38:21: As a kid i think...I used to play well over seven hours a day just because i wanted to play and improvise and play with recordings And some of it was also practicing diligently but most playing music.

00:38:40: But nowadays, unfortunately I don't get so much time to practice.

00:38:44: but things have changed since Friday.

00:38:49: i got a new practice place and if... If things keep the way they are ...I've been waking up And walking five minutes through this place which is very close to my face.

00:39:01: So it's a privilege!

00:39:03: And in playing The Very First Thing In The Morning And then coming back home and having breakfast, the rest of the day.

00:39:10: Then in a very less thing for about ten or eleven in the evening going to this place and practicing again... ...or playing.. ..and going back home.

00:39:19: So it's the first time ever that I've had one or two hours each piece have been for the last few days at drums.

00:39:28: It is amazing!

00:39:30: I realized how thankful i was when my parents grew up and it's something not to take for granted, like having access to an instrument.

00:39:40: And especially the drums.

00:39:41: being able to play without anybody complaining which is a big thing!

00:39:47: To have space to play... It's fantastic.

00:39:51: so yeah I've been playing around four hours per day if i'm lucky but it's always a great joy to have any time to play the drums, I would say.

00:40:09: What do you think of this statement?

00:40:10: It don't mean anything if it ain't got that swing also in consideration of polyrhythms.

00:40:18: Oh!

00:40:18: That...that is true

00:40:19: right?!

00:40:22: ...it´s a Duke Ellington isn't it?

00:40:25: I think..I THINK IT'S TRUE But.... ..I ALSO THINK THAT IT'S GOOD TO BE OPEN to find different swinging ways.

00:40:38: Holy rhythms, yeah!

00:40:42: There's so much diversity in music.

00:40:44: I think everyone can find a place and swing And different cultures swing differently.

00:40:53: Sometimes people are not very open to it.

00:40:58: But but i definitely think this phrase is... It's very important

00:41:05: Afal, where do you prefer to play?

00:41:07: in a club?

00:41:08: In the hall or open

00:41:11: air.

00:41:11: I always preferred to play...in a closed place so not open-air.

00:41:19: i see there's also A beauty and playing open air.

00:41:23: many drums are naturally And a folkloric way born of plain open air like in the south.

00:41:32: people will play the Bombo Leguero, which is this Argentinian very rough big bass drum.

00:41:40: And that's an open-air instrument.

00:41:43: and but I've always been more drawn to playing in a room where you can hear the feedback from...from the sound waves you generate and you can play the room.

00:41:55: if you're playing outdoors it's hard ...the sound just goes away!

00:42:01: what always ends up with me is that I play more and louder because there's space infinitely, right?

00:42:09: And in a room you can adjust yourself to the room which i find more musical.

00:42:17: More ideal.

00:42:18: so...I always like playing close places therefore jazz venues where normally drum sets are set.

00:42:26: but..i can appreciate both worlds.

00:42:30: Yeah.

00:42:32: You mentioned that you already experienced recordings in studios, what effects do these rooms have on your playing?

00:42:40: I've

00:42:42: been fortunate to be quite some recording over the years and yeah... Well i think the first recording did a studio With a group of mine was an accorded in Porto Alegre about two thousand eighteen or nineteen, which was acquired called karma and It's more of an electric jazz kind of thing.

00:43:15: And yeah since then I've been lucky to be some recordings.

00:43:20: I have recorded with this quartet very thankful to play in Sofia Oster quartet with Konstantin Haerleinsberger on the saxophone and Paul Immond bass.

00:43:33: And Zofia, she's a wonderful pianist and singer-composer in person.

00:43:39: just overall great inspiration for me... ...and everyone that knows her I would say!

00:43:49: We recorded also in studio last year a record and with Pouya Abdi, the guitarist as well that is very good friend of mine.

00:44:04: And we've been playing for quite some time already.

00:44:08: We recorded it in studio.

00:44:10: his first album.

00:44:11: now he second album coming out.

00:44:14: It's live records but generally I have been lucky to have recorded many studios not most professional great experience and others that were really huge, amusing which also doesn't mean something great is going to come out of it.

00:44:39: I think its naturally different to record music than play live but first off.

00:44:49: probably not having an audience directly or being separated with the drums if you're recording all in same room makes a great impact on your playing, and there's definitely preferences in this sense.

00:45:02: I think when one plays in the room where the ceiling is very high it's very good because you can... It's not very dry.

00:45:12: You hear the cymbals resound but most of the cases studios have really small booths for drums recording which really dries up And then afterwards the sound engineer cranks up the reverb and deals with the sounds of drums as it would have been in a nice room.

00:45:35: But originally, It wasn't... The way you play is affected by how you listen to it real time through any other post-producing strategies.

00:45:52: I'm glad to record music in any circumstance.

00:45:57: I like that a lot and there's different circumstances to do so but it is definitely different than playing live, i think sometimes the best things happen live.

00:46:11: really when one has really risk-taking people adapt to each other.

00:46:17: they don't feel comfortable as if oh yeah!

00:46:19: There are flute solo.

00:46:20: maybe play loud because the sound engineer can just Turn my volume down if you want, but no.

00:46:26: If it's live there is a flute solo.

00:46:27: You have to be careful with the drums.

00:46:35: That'a little bit of challenge But I like both instances.

00:46:40: You're still studying at Hochschule für Musik und Theater and finish your studies soon.

00:46:47: What are your plans?

00:46:54: And I am currently studying my masters, so in about a year or so... ...I would be finished with my master's.

00:47:05: Musically what i'm looking very much forward to do well is still piecing the puzzles together but I've been really interested and composing for The Church Organ at that moment and there's a player I really admire his work.

00:47:26: And we'll probably have been talking to him, and will probably collaborate soon which is Kit Downs.

00:47:36: he has brilliant British organ player... ...and piano as well!

00:47:43: He lives in Berlin and i've been an admirer of this work for some time.

00:47:48: it so great that the Hohschule offers the possibility to have an artist in residence or to invite.

00:47:56: as a master student you get to invite someone to collaborate, or record something.

00:48:04: Or play concert and if everything works out fine I'll be recording with him an album.

00:48:13: And Nelson Veras brilliant acoustic guitar player that lives in Paris, he comes from Brazil.

00:48:21: And in trio a challenging setting but I'm really excited about how it can sound.

00:48:29: yeah if everything works out then again we... something next year will be working on the music and recording it hopefully soon after releasing or so.

00:48:43: So those are musically as leader at least the plans that I've been writing down and working on them.

00:48:52: Do

00:48:52: you think you can make your living as a freelance musician?

00:48:58: Well, i dream of it definitely but so far... ...I have been able to sustain myself from music which is very privileged position if that, because life costs tend to go higher as you grow older and my wife and I want to have kids at some time.

00:49:30: And yeah we...we have to see about how possible it is to sustain a future with music but i think that's definitely possible!

00:49:39: I mean i've been..i've seen many great musicians finding their way through through music and supporting families.

00:49:49: And yeah, I'm very optimistic about this!

00:49:55: Now at last i admit that I went through the internet looking for information about you... Yes there are quite a lot of entries.

00:50:04: so I finally have a rather profane question Do social media mean anything to you?

00:50:12: Yeah strong questions.

00:50:14: I use it mostly as a journal and A way to To maybe connect with people that might be interested in improvised music and drums.

00:50:30: But, uh...to Be honest It has been over the last few years Way more of problem than a solution.

00:50:37: Because i think Well..I'm pretty sure That Social media And Has been engineered for The Last Few Years too make the user addict to it, and through this algorithm more than connect people.

00:50:55: And well... This is no news or I'm not speaking any revelation here but It's a very isolating thing right?

00:51:04: The social media of people who can spend alot time instead going into club or listening music in room from CD or vinyl.

00:51:13: so i really try over times to actively do that in contrast, using social media.

00:51:22: But of course I still enjoy posting it as a journal and updating my music here and there but i would say its more healthy to consider the future with less social media.

00:51:43: if not

00:51:44: Well, without social media podcasts would not work.

00:51:48: My thanks go to Rafa Müller for talking about his exciting and informative journey through his life as a jazz drummer!

00:51:56: And I hope that his experiences and knowledge inspire and encourage other young musicians.